1. I think most of us would agree the dæmon is linked to our consciousness since they reside in our mind, so if someone were in a coma, their dæmon would be unconscious right there beside them. The dæmon cannot be conscious when the human isn't, or visa versa. (Whenever I say "Rookie is asleep," I literally mean that he's in a deep, relaxed state with his eyes closed. He's not REALLY asleep.)

Also, the dæmon is affected by our physical pains... for some duos it may be more apparent than with others. With us, Rookie almost always grimaces and/or complains about a terrible discomfort more than me. If you're thinking about how much something hurts, your dæmon can't help concentrating on it, too. When I'm physically worn out (and I mean utterly exhausted), Rookie can look even worse than I do. He's taking each painful step with his head hanging... moving at a snail's pace - no vigor left in him. The reason for this is because my "spirits are low" after I've been worked to death. I'm more likely unhappy than happy, and my dæmon reflects this.

For the person in a coma... if their consciousness and link to our world is fading, so is their dæmon. With a dying human laying in a pathetic state in a hospital bed, you have a dying, weak animal for the dæmon. If the brain isn't functioning, then consciousness isn't functioning, then your dæmon isn't functioning.



2. So far I can only envision him when I'm consciously doing it, so that makes me wonder, how is it that you know that they've changed their form when you didn't consciously will them to change?

My dæmon is always with me, and the majority of the time I'm aware of his presence and where he is. I've been envisioning his forms for years, after all, so we've both gotten used to how he acts when projected. It's hard to explain how I know when he's changed.... actually, it's ridiculously simple. As I watch him, he just changes. ::shrug:: Some dæmons like to shift form very frequently, and if your dæmon's one of those, you'll just get attuned to his shape-shifting. Some dæmons prefer a certain animal for a certain situation, and some rarely change. His forms are tied to your mind, so if he's not changing, that's fine. There's no rule saying they have to change, and if they do, it should feel natural.

I think you're trying too hard to see him. Don't imagine that there's a right or wrong answer to your dæmon's location. He is not physical, and can simply appear whichever way you're looking. If you want him to be beside you, then that's the "right" location. I promise you that envisioning your dæmon will become second nature after a while.

How did you feel when you first really connected with your daemon?

I felt more complete - plain and simple. Rookie made me happy. I wasn't alone anymore. I had an entity always on hand that knew all my pains and joys, and who was constantly there to speak to about them.



3. I was lying on the couch a few nights ago - face turned toward the cushions; comfortable except for the chilly air from the a/c hitting my exposed back. Rookie became his black griffin form and laid up against me. (This wouldn't be physically possible considering the available space, but that's just another example of dæmons modifying their projected selves when necessary.) Rookie spread a large feathered wing over my body, and once it was actually resting on my side... my shivering ceased. I didn't feel cold any longer. I truly noticed a tingle of warmth (as SNLObsess put it) moving throughout my limbs, as if Rookie's body heat were affecting me.

And even more importantly... his act of kindness made me feel like I was protected from anything and everything - completely sheltered from the world if need be. With Rookie's dark wing right above me, it was as though I never needed to be fretful ever again, because he will look after me.

If you're having trouble deciphering your dæmon's exact words, you may wish to try being silent for a time. Just imagine him near you... let his love for you reflect in his actions and just the way he looks at you. Let his mere presence comfort you. Once you understand who your dæmon is, and what just knowing him and having him means to you... communicating in words should be easier.

That's my advice for the day. =P



4. Yes, the behavior of the creature a dæmon becomes is important, but it's not the only thing. Its temperament must be taken into account as well (and yes, symbolism is a must). There are obviously a lot fewer insect dæmons than bird or mammals ones, and I still believe it's because bugs have less personality and simpler minds than other living things. Whereas mammals have a wide range of thought and things much like emotions if not in fact emotions, insects have been described as "little computers." They simply do what their instincts tell them, as if they were a running program. A person cannot easily (if at all) be defined by an ant dæmon, because what do ants live for? The queen of their colony. Nobody lives just to please their boss at every waking moment, or at least I'd hope not. =P

Insects only rely on instinct, or what they were 'programmed' to do, and people and mammals (mostly) aren't like that. We sometimes act purely on intuition, but we also have reasoning and common sense. Animals will use reasoning as well.

I think this excerpt I found describes what I mean:

"It is at this point that we must begin "bending our minds" away from human emotionalism, so that we can consider the insects' inherited instinctual drives in a detached, analytical manner.

Nowadays many people, including no-nonsense biologists, are beginning to admit that higher animals such as chimpanzees, porpoises, and even dogs and cats have degrees of insight, and maybe even emotions, though of profoundly different nature than what we humans experience. However, no genuine scientist has made the case for any insect ever displaying emotions or insight. The point Fabre wished to make with his story was that insects do not think; insects behave strictly according to instinct.

It's quite as if insects were little machines with computers instead of brains. The insect experiences a stimulus, such as noticing that a bee's crop is filled with nectar, and its automatic response is to squeeze the bee in a certain way and lick the bee's tongue. This response is as automatic as the process of hitting the Ctrl-Alt-Delete keys on your keyboard causing your computer to hot boot (and your losing all the info in your RAM, so don't do it right now!). Nature programmed Fabre's wasp to lick the bee's tongue because mother wasps need the honey's energy for themselves. There's nothing personal, nothing evil, nothing sneaky about the behavior. It's all programmed right there in the wasp's genetic code.

To further make his point, Fabre describes another of his classic experiments. One wasp species always drags its demobilized victims to the nest by tugging on the prey's antennae. When Fabre snipped off the preys' antennae, the wasp couldn't figure out to grab another part of the prey's body -- a mouthpart or front leg, for instance. The wasp was programmed to pull its paralyzed prey by the antennae, and it simply didn't have the intelligence to do anything other than what its instinct told it to do."



5. Naturally, and honestly, the dæmon's consciousness is located within you. It's the brain that generates consciousness, so I guess you could say your dæmon dwells inside your mind - inside your being. For people who have not 'met' their dæmon, they observe the world through the human's eyes, ears, nose, etc. But for those of us who project our dæmon, things become more complicated because we imagine them so readily as separate.

We visualize our dæmons for convenience when speaking to them. Because they can better comfort us when they have soft fur (or feathers) and eyes to reflect sympathy and love. Because only then can we truly know what form they've taken, and what it says about us. I believe that Rookie's body has slowly gained a life of its own, so to speak. Yes, he often sees through my eyes and mine alone, but other times.... both of us feel as though, when he's laying beside me, he really is looking at me, not from within me. But I'd say he sees me more in a metaphorical sense. He watches me from a distance... he observes my actions without me putting thought into it. There's something about his thoughts that make them distinct from mine.... there's no doubt about that. But if you're asking if his consciousness drifts with his visual body, the answer is no. His words and emotions are always within me, but his visual self can only be outside.  (Rookie later explained, "I do not see you; I am with you.")



6. I still think 'masculine' and 'feminine' are way too flexible of terms to describe a dæmon on their own. =/ Some decidedly male dæmons aren't exactly masculine, and I can think of a few female dæmons who could be described as 'masculine.' I know Rookie is male, and he knows he's male. He has masculine qualities, but me calling him a "masculine dæmon" wouldn't give someone the right impression. You call your dæmon a 'he' because they're male, not because of how manly they act.

I don't see dæmons as part of a scale. You don't ask, "On a scale of 1 to 10, how masculine or feminine is your dæmon?" You'd instead ask if they're male or female, because there as a suitable answer. No, Rook is not male by the normal definition of the word, since he can't fertilize an egg, and I don't believe dæmons have any reproductive organs. But another definition is 'Characteristic of or appropriate to this sex; masculine.' So masculine can mean male - not just having male tendencies. Something about my dæmon is just "appropriate to the sex." I can tell by his voice, his demeanor, his presence... If Rookie were compared to a more 'masculine' dæmon, they would still both be male... not one more male than the other.

Actually, under the definition of masculine there's even the note: a gender that refers chiefly (but not exclusively) to males or to objects classified as male. So maybe I could be arguing that they're one and the same. Dæmons have a gender simply because we classify them that way. It's not the same as choosing their gender, because we instinctively know which one is right, and male and female are the best terms we have for it.

What about dæmons that aren't masculine or feminine? Are they just 'its'? Even if there was nothing about Rookie's behavior that screamed male or female, I would know which one he was. And those in Lyra's world? Do they just decide whether to refer to their dæmon as 'he' or 'she' depending on the dæmon's lack or plethora of masculine traits? I believe it's something much more definite than that.

But whether they have a sex in the corporeal sense or not, I still think male and female are much better means of describing them than masculine or feminine.



7. Rookie doesn't naturally balance me out, so I see what you're saying there... He's not my exact opposite, either, because then there *would* be a lot of inner conflict going on. But we do have our differences, and these differences have a positive influence on me. He's braver, more assertive - and speaking to him has helped me find those traits in myself. But we do share a core. We're both relatively quiet, shy, and solitary. I figure part of the reason he's not exactly like me is just that he gets to observe the world, whereas I'm the one who has to deal with all its pressures and struggles head on. Sure, he's biased about things like anybody else, but he's experienced the world differently, and it gives him his own attitude. =) But I've noted before that he *does* exaggerate my emotions sometimes. I see him as my conscience, but also what makes me human. If he's my emotional core... well, my emotions aren't always pleasant, and it's like he gets hit by the blunt force of my anger or sadness.

edit: Another thing to remember is that all your dæmon's traits reside in yourself, but the dæmon might emphasize certain ones that you don't exhibit enough. For example, a dæmon emphasizing their human's empathy because their human needs to show more of it. It's a subtle jab at ourselves to improve, or at least acknowledge all our attributes.



8. "Alright. one) I tried to make this sound as little like me blathering in stream-of-consciousness style as possible, but I mostly failed drastically. Sorry. two) I make many grand, sweeping statements about people and humankind in here that probably sound really obnoxious but I am just trying to convey an idea. I recognize I am a silly teenage girl who doesn't know anything; hopefully I'm not offending anyone or anything. three) This is so long! I don't know how it happened! I will actually come to your house and paint your garage door if you slog through this and share your thoughts.


Well me and the donkey were discussing the 'touching' matter today inspired by that other thread, and we're reversed our old opinion on the matter! We used to think like HDM and if anyone ever touched him I'd just shrivel up and die because it would be so hideous, you know?

But now! (Get hyped, I have been pretending to be a philosopher again) I think the problem with people as a collective is dæmon touching just isn't possible for us, period. And we can sense that kind of union could exist under different circumstances. And that brings us that nagging feeling of incompleteness that is everywhere with humans.

I see everyone as essentially alone, because our senses and our brains and our culture and our personality (and, yes, even our dæmons I suppose) act as a sort of filter on what we experience, so that no one else on earth can understand exactly what's inside of anyone else, exactly. As close as you get to a person, as much as you think you and this person are coming from the same place, you will both be reacting to the same stimulus differently. This difference in opinion, no matter how small, will always come between you. It may be small (a blank stare after an anecdote you've told), or it may be big (racism, sexism, hating the way that one guy in your math class talks so much you swear you'd kill him if you wouldn't get caught), but that rift is always there.

Probably this is why animals are so less complicated than people, and seemingly a lot more satisfied. This difference of opinion isn't present for them like it is for us. I guess it is just a side effect of having a soul - or at least having a soul manifesting itself as a dæmon*: you end up completely unique, so this separation occurs. When this human-dæmon relationship concept was born eons ago, we were brought a whole load of pros, but there were also cons all over the place! We finally UNDERSTOOD. It was awesome. But once we began to understand ourselves, once this shift into having a dæmon happened, we began to perceive that there was something missing. Everyone was suddenly all alone. This wasn�t as awesome.

[*I mean dæmon as in conscience-soul-subconscious, not necessarily in an animal shape and not necessarily as vocal or defined as we see ours. I'm just using 'dæmon' for the general concept. Just to clarify!]

And just imagine, I mean - I know we all have friends and family and love and community, but just take a look in anyone's eyes: a lover, best friend, some one-legged man on the bus, and you realize you have no idea how things look to them. You can see all the images and ideas and abstract thoughts in your own head, and you can only guess that there is such a set of wonderful amazing things happening in this other person's head, but you can't link things up together perfectly and get right inside them. And this is an unfulfilled need for everyone (I am thinking of the huge crowds gathering to go through that portal in Being John Malkovich. Every person expressing themselves in any form is just a person in that crowd, looking for a chance to be John Malkovich for fifteen minutes).

And I think that's why people became what we are: such a neurotic, insecure, destructive, convoluted, absurd mass of a species, for the most part. It's why we write poetry, it's why we make art: an attempt to convey ourselves for another person to finally pipe up and say, 'I get it! I do!' and be absolutely right. It's why we have science or philosophy: if we can prove the way things really are, we can find some common ground and gather there and compare notes and figure it out. It's why expectations and etiquette in relationships are so absurd: two people begin to feel the first manifestations of this full sense of one another and start scrabbling all over the place to better it and preserve it. I think that's what religion is: I have begun to see Jesus as a sort of dæmon millions can share, can try to join together through him. It is another attempt at real-world dæmon-touching.

What Will and Lyra had in the Amber Spyglass, I think that's the peak of human development right there. Two people finally, finally being able to say, 'hey. this is me. and that's you. and that's it.' And it really is it, and that's all there is for them right there, and of course that scene, with the actual physical touching of dæmons, is just a symbol for this union. In this world it isn't so simple, or I'm sure all of us daemians would be able to talk of transcendent moments of oneness with another where they got into the part of another person labeled 'dæmon,' and they got right inside of us, too. But we can't tell stories like that, because our projected dæmons are still, in a sense, symbols, if really effective ones. This union isn't as easy as an invisible tail brushing past someone's pantleg, an intangible set of claws dug into someone's shoulder.

A lot of the time it seems dæmons are the interpretive force behind what our bodies are going through. And I think they universally have this need to meet with other dæmons halfway, to extend past the body and have that purer, less ambiguous connection established. And so that's why I think dæmon touching in our world is a completely different thing than the scene with Lyra in the ceiling at Bolvangar. And why the world would be so much more gorgeous and beautiful and harmonious, were we able to achieve that state somehow (how could anyone kill anyone else if there was that humming current of concrete dæmon-connection running through the world population?) I kind of just see it as an evolutionary flaw to have the body put up walls to keep spirit/soul/whatever separate. But I'm neurotic. What do you think?"



9. I believe only humans have dæmons in the sense that we know ours. Animals don't have a part of themselves that they mentally converse with, because they aren't capable of higher levels of thinking like us. As Spiral said, some are very intelligent, but their brainpower still can't compare to ours. And why would an animal have an internal companion in the shape of animal? So if we have dæmons and they don't, the dæmon is simply what makes us human. The soul is a good, broad term for what they are. I've listed textbook definitions of 'soul' below this. Am I saying animals don't have a soul? Well, by the exact definition, they don't. 95% of definitions will specificy that it's part of a human, an inidividual, not a living thing in general. But animals aren't empty. Because they're alive they have consciousness, they can reason, they can learn, they can be affectionate, sad... They're more than the sum of their parts. So I assume it's like Iorek and the armoured bears. No, they don't have dæmons like we do, but they have something comparable to a soul. I personally believe in Heaven, and that Heaven is perfect. God knows what I need to be forever content. And if that's so, I shouldn't arrive there only to mourn the absence of my old pets. I believe that they'll be with me somehow, and that this is possible because they have their own, unique spirit.

No one noun can describe all that a dæmon is because they fill so many roles inside us. Calling them one thing alone isn't gonna do it, because they're not constantly acting as one thing or another. Rookie acts as my conscience, my self-awareness, my true emotions, my subconscious, my reasoning... But he's not always telling me what I should do, nor is he always showing an alterante side to things. He's not always reflecting how I feel deep down, or helping me think things through... He's not always reasonable himself. These are all just aspects that make up the dæmon. But because soul is such a broad, loose term, it can mold into any of the above. It encompasses everything. Here are some definitions I found on Google that pertain to dæmons, IMHO:

-The animating and vital principle in humans, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity.
-the immaterial part of a person; the actuating cause of an individual life
-deep feeling or emotion
-the human embodiment of something
-Refers to an inner personality, the complement of the outer Personality and Persona, functioning as a mediator between the Ego and the inner world.
-The immaterial, immortal part of man; spirit, mind or heart; essence; vital principle; a person
-The spiritual life force or essence, carrying an individual's personality and consciousness of all actions.
-all that a human person is except for the physical body
-That underlying foundation of human existence which is the true self as pure consciousness.
-The part of man that makes him different than the animals.
-used to indicate the personal identity of a living being, its feelings, thoughts, impulses, memories, and sense of self.

Most people would say the soul is the part of us that goes to Heaven when the body dies, but if you look it up, that's a less common definition. The above are more generally accepted. They say nothing about being pure and good all the time, or God.. they say little about spirituality... The whole afterlife thing is specifically the church's definition of the soul. If you have trouble calling your dæmon your soul for that reason, well, there's more to it.

Rookie is my conscience because he urges me to do the right thing, and chides me when I do wrong. He's my self-awareness because it's a part of what makes us human: our ability to ponder such things as why we exist, what's after death, our morals, and other things that an animal would just never consider. He's also my self-awareness in the more literal sense. I act, but he can sit back and make note of everything I do and comment on it. He encourages me to change, to experiment, to have fun. He's the real, untainted me because he sometimes reflects my honest emotions when I keep myself from reacting. He'll cry when I'm broken inside, snarl when I'm ticked, cower when I feel bad, and all else. And yet other times he's the reasoning that remains calm when I'm the one torn up. So how can one or the other be enough to describe his nature? And how does 'reasoning' explain how much he loves me, or how protective he is of me?

But your soul is everything that makes you an individual - everything you are inside that can't be cut open and viewed with a microscope. They're a reflection of how we think and perceive the world. To me, this is the dæmon.



10. Hannah says:

You need to be happy with yourself before you can be happy with your dæmon's form.

"I agree with that. I'm happy with myself, and with my dæmon's form. I've found something that represents me, I'm settled with being settled, and I am very satisfied to know who I am. My opinion is that a big part of being settled is when you can really look at yourself and accept who you are. When you're able to look at all your traits, good and bad, and think, "okay, that's who I am". When someone that thinks they're perfect and refuses to see the bad things about themselves, it's... childish."



11. I don't think that's possible. Just because we greatly admire someone, it doesn't make us that person. Their dæmon form might be something we aspire to, but that's not enough for the dæmon to settle on. (Unless you desired so greatly to be like them that it actually happened, but even then, you're your own person, not their clone. It's unlikely you and whoever would be best represented by the same animal out of the millions out there.)

I believe it's entirely possible for an unsettled dæmon to have a form in "honor" of someone else. Rookie's Japoro form in part honors a man we knew whose dæmon was an ermine. This was kind of our way of showing respect... but I wasn't Dean, and I certainly am not him now. I can remember all that he did for me while still developing my own identity. And I did that. Basically, I don't believe wanting to honor them with your settled form is enough to make it happen. The dæmon would be lying to you and themselves if they falsely settled.



12. For me another black coyote would not be about "zomg they're stealing my uniqueness!" At least not consciously. =/ I've never met anyone irl that reminded me all that much of myself, so it's difficult for me to imagine my "carbon clone." Nor do I think I'm spectacularly unique to begin with. It's just that the black coyote (a rather rare animal) fits my personality best. Why should I care if someone is shy around stangers like me, or walks fast like me, or is sarcastic like me? Our traits would add up in completely different ways, and we'd be a black coyote for different reasons. Plenty of people online remind me of myself, but they aren't coyotes, and I don't feel threatened by them. I'm more likely to get freaked out by someone having all the same interests as me. ;) It's surreal to be mad about, "Hey, you have my personality traits!", but to me makes perfect sense to whine about, "They like the same bands, the same movies, the same songs, the same birds.." I hate coincidences like that. XD;

Anyway, the point? I think my concern with other black coyotes would be more about Rookie than my supposed uniqueness. For those with common dæmon forms (red fox being the obligatory example), they don't seem to mind others with the same settled form because.. how can they? It's too likely they'll meet another one, and thus not worth getting upset over every time. They see the animal so much (people love red foxes), that they don't do a double-take seeing one in a new person's signature. But on the other hand black coyotes are practically unheard of. How many of you knew black coyotes existed until I went, "Hey, that's what Rookie is!" I knew about black wolves and black foxes, but I'd never considered black coyotes existed 'cause you never see or hear about them. Photos are rare, and 70% of them are of dead ones killed by hunters. Seriously. Everytime I find a new black coyote photo it's from a hunting forum. So outside of that niche, very few people seem to know about them. And anyone who did chance upon a black coyote would probably think it was a dog, or wolf, or something else. I've even seen people mistake coyotes for foxes. x.x

Edit: =((( I tried looking up black coyotes on YouTube. This is what I found: Link Yeah, it's so beautiful. Good thing you KILLED it. ><

So basically, the best picture I have of a black coyote like Rookie is my mental one. =/ 'Black coyote' is practically synonymous with 'Rookie' because I never see them outside of our relationship. So for someone else to pop up with this obscure form, it'd be unreal. When I imagine a black coyote, I picture Rookie, so it'd be like they were trying to have their own Rookie. They wouldn't be exactly like me, and the dæmon not like Rookie, so it would feel they were trying to copy me and doing a poor job of it, even if that's not the case. As childish as it is, I'd be objecting deep down, "That's MY dæmon, you can't have 'im!" Thinking about how someone could see the same form when envisioning their soul is almost unimaginable to me, because it's never happened. Maybe one day I'll get my rude wake-up call. =/ Especially if they were unsettled, though, I'd feel hostile about them "messing" with something so precious to me.

So I don't like the thought of someone else "seeing Rookie" when talking to their dæmon. If their dæmon didn't look that much like Rookie, despite being similar overall, I'd be okay. Like Cat's friend has a black coyote dæmon that's actually part husky, and has a white chest and green eyes.. When I picture that it's nothing like Rookie. I even found someone on LiveJournal with a black coyote dæmon, I think, though they called her a spirit guide. Obviously this was a female dæmon, and she is described as having gold eyes. Again, a female coyote with gold eyes? Not Rookie. But the closer their appearance to Rookie's, the more uncomfortable I'd feel. If another pitch black coyote with blue eyes came along, yes, you can expect a melt-down on my part. ;) It would just be too weird.

Sorry for the rant. I hope I explained my feelings adequately. Winger did a great job of explaining why we're suspicious of "copied" forms and what they could do to make life easier on everyone, so I won't repeat it. I'll just add that an unusual form means an unusual person, so it makes sense that they wouldn't appear every day. =P And I've also done away with the statistics theory, because that would mean the majority of daemons are insects, fish, and birds, when these are actually the minority.

edit: So really, it has nothing to do with them 'stealing my uniqueness.' Okay, maybe a little, because it's nice to feel like you're one of a kind, at least within the community. Black coyote would no longer apply to just me. I'd instead be 'one of the black coyotes,' and that's not such an exclusive title. But like with everyone else, I understand the immaturity of it. For me it's more the issue of their dæmon looking like mine. Any time they posted a picture of their dæmon I'd automatically think "Rookie," and surely some of you can imagine how uncomfortable that would feel. The image of a pitch black 'yote has been equated to Rookie for so long. Another one appearing out of the blue would feel like a copy, even if they're being genuine. >< Sure, the rarity of a form doesn't mean anything given probability, but I STILL think another black coyote joining the forums is unlikely. The concept is still pretty new to people. I've found a handful of artists with black coyote fursonas/characters, and maybe two with a black coyote spirit guide, but that's it.

. . . I know that if another black coyote joined, I'd want them to leave. I accept that there are other black coyote souls in the world - that doesn't concern me. But I don't want to be forced to see them, because it's knowing someone else is visualizing a black coyote dæmon that hurts me. Envy is my worse vice, and I know I'd be OCD about it: constantly comparing our dæmons, wondering if theirs is somehow the 'better' black coyote. Are Rookie's eyes really blue? Is his coat really all black? Maybe he DOES have a white chest? It would make me question my form unnecessarily, I think, and I'd rather be blissfully unaware. But the reality is this member wouldn't leave, and I'd somehow have to make my peace with it. Don't misunderstand me - I'd never confront them aggressively. I'd just want to talk to them and see why they think the form fits. Heck, I might even feel better if it clearly doesn't fit, because then I could ignore them more easily. And I'm willing to admit how silly that is. XD



13. Balaurul says:

Sports: Team sports could become very complicated. Would your dæmon be allowed to participate, or would they have to let their human do everything and stay out of the way? (That could get difficult with wrestling and that sort of thing, the dæmons would end up in a confused circle--or would they wrestle the other dæmon seperately?) I'm picturing a baseball game where someone has a very athletic frisbee-type dog dæmon and another player has a songbird: the former obviously has the advantage, and the latter has to take extra precaution to avoid getting hit by a flyball, which wouldn't be very fair.

This is a moot point to me, because if dæmons were corporeal our society would've developed differently. I doubt they'd have soccer or any other kind of sport where you have to be crowded and swing your legs around. =P Either that or it'd be something only extremely talented people would engage in after lots of practice - otherwise they risk many accidents involving hurting someone else's dæmon or touching them with bare skin. Or it'd just be considered an "extreme" sport. In a dæmons-are-physical world they would have developed different games.. But IF dæmons suddenly became physical here, I suspect true-blooded fans would just try to play around their dæmons and find it very difficult. ;) Professional sports teams would diminish in size because people wouldn't want to risk their dæmon's well-being. But you're right - maybe dæmons could just sit/run around on the sidelines, but man that's a weird image. XD

Balaurul says:

Fights and Arguments: If your mom was yelling at you, you were just sitting there, taking it, and your dæmon started snarling, would you get punished? I forsee many discussions along the lines of "Hey, it was Mer's fault, not mine!"

I don't think any rational parent would punish you for the dæmon's actions (if it's a growl), because they're just reflecting how you really feel. (At worst it'd be seen as "copping an attitude.") It might affect how they treat you, though, such as seeing that you're feeling more hostile towards them than you're showing, but it wouldn't be a "That's it, go to your room" situation. But yeah, if the "dæmon" stole something or broke something, etc, you might get punished for it because you're the same entity. You share a mind, so it was both of your ideas. Using your dæmon as an excuse would likely be something parents teach their children to not do. It doesn't work. ;)

Edit: Concerning the sparrow dæmon 'eating' in HDM, I think he was just playing the role of a sparrow, or doing it out of curiosity, not because he HAS to eat. (Can you imagine dæmons defecating or using a toilet? =/ It makes no sense that they'd have to do that, because your health - physical and mental - is theirs. I think of it as we eat for them.) If Pullman envisioned eating and drinking as necessary for dæmons he probably would've described them doing so. But there's been speculation on the forum about if they CAN eat if they choose. I don't see why not, but I also don't see why they would.

......

I assume a saddle or pad would be acceptable to keep you from falling off [of your horse dæmon], but something like reigns or a bit would be grossly inappropriate, because then you're treating your dæmon like a beast. Plus they aren't necessary when you can just direct them mentally. =P



14. But there's an easy way around that if you think dæmons aren't just "the soul." You could say anything alive has a soul, while only something as introspective and self-aware as humans has a dæmon. Because really, our definition of a dæmon is the visual representation in animal form of your being (your personality, your soul, whatever). It doesn't make sense that animals would be... represented by animals, and have one following them around giving advice. o.o I think a crow is pretty firmly a crow. But you might still believe they have an internal spirit which accounts for that individual's uniqueness and animation, etc. That's kind of how I feel.



15. I'm gonna have to be a rebel and side on the "that's wrong and twisted and totally creeps me out" team. I feel a person's sexual energy should be directed to their /human/ partner alone, and their dæmon's (if it has any) to their partner's dæmon. If you feel the need to have sex with your dæmon I would imagine it's because you're desperate for sex, and would be better off waiting for the right person than screwing the nearest available body. I figure having sexual relations with your dæmon would greatly affect the relationship, and if it didn't, then I'd be concerned for that person's mental state. =/ (Just like people that can have "friends with benefits" and not think anything of it.) I believe the dæmon's bond with their human is supposed to be something pure and imbued with unconditional love, not marred by a physical relationship. If dæmons were corporeal, sleeping with your dæmon would in my mind be no different from cheating on your partner, because you're sharing your body with someone other than them. Then there's the whole question of can dæmons even get aroused/have sex? I also think it would be too easy to get addicted to sleeping with them, and then you've screwed up what was supposed to be a special bond in your life that doesn't have to involve lust. I worry that the lover side would start to trump everything else the dæmon is about, because if the sex is good, and there always there, why would they stop? Just because something feels good doesn't make it right. I also worry about how this would affect their relationship with any future partners. It seems generally dumb, naive, and wrong.

.........

When I think about it, this topic confuses me in so many ways.

1) I've always assumed corporeal dæmon wouldn't have genitalia anyway. What purpose would it serve for a "walking metaphor"? I think they have genders, not sexes. As far as we can tell they wouldn't be pissing or mating. I doubt dæmons get erections or horny. >> Their human does, and the dæmon's behavior would reflect it, e.g. the dæmon getting especially giddy or animated.
2) It seems very likely, going off of HDM, that possible forms for dæmons are restricted. I strongly believe that they can't even take human form when unsettled. =/ I think they can only turn into forms that are probable settled ones, and human ain't it. So... they're left with a sexless dæmon to have sex with.
3) Even assuming they did have genitalia, it's an animal!! Zoophiliacs exist, but I can't imagine they account for much of the population... And be it their familiar dæmon or not, I doubt many normal people would be so tempted to have sex with their dæmon that they'd do it with an animal. -_-

In others words... we either get really hypothetical or this topic's moot. XD

......

Sajoli & Kedokai says:

In my thoughts, daemon sex in her world would be possible, but only to unsettled daemons (so they can change their forms to sort the, eh, needs of the occasion), and I doubt there would be many children who would be willing to try this out.

But still, for that we're assuming a dæmon when unsettled can become a human with completely functional genitalia? That a male dæmon could produce sperm and spread his "genetic material"? Unless you think dæmon can procreate, which makes no sense, them having sex makes no sense. x.x I still stand behind the idea that even if they had external genitalia, it wouldn't "function." It would only be for looks, to represent your dæmon's form's sex, but not for mating purposes.

edit: To reiterate, they are not humans. They are not animals. They are dæmons. And there's no reason to believe dæmons have sex or are sexual beings, except in that their humans are and they are the same mind.